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[9det]

Something that has been crawling in my brains between my 2 neurones for a while now.

We've probably all been in one of these games where the first, second or third picker went for a blatantly inappropriate hero regardless of everyone spamming on chat the right lineup.

In sprd, you can't seriously blame someone for that (or at least you can't take action against him), but in xp and especially now with the new XP points system, it can really ruin a game from minute 1 to have someone first pick tinker because he has something for lasers...

The first 3 picks define your team's strategy as well as their chances for a late-mid/late game (which is how long 90% of XP games will go)

So I'm brainstorming a little bit if/how to avoid getting in a situation like that. Every input or suggestion is welcome

[Ptinoob]

I think it will depend on how the system is gonna go. I mean , if players want to do really serious game.

There could be a thing like that : you add , 2 captains are chosen and a pool with let's say 25 heroes , each captains can ban 1 or 2 picks and then they decide to pick the heroes they want. That's how the system works on some games i play. Kinda interesting games , but everybody said me dotapickup was for fun games before serious.

So i would say no , or change the system (though i dont like someone picking lanaya etc , i dont care about losing now.)

[9det]

I agree that the concept should still be fun games, this is no league or ubber high skilled play serious or die only invite thing.

But it's fun to play the damn game together, solo picking CAN very likely ruin a game which is not very fun.

my personal opinion, is that a VERY bad pick, or multiple bad picks in XP game should be enough to put someone in surveillance. It makes sense, it's a kind of low level warning so no real harm done and It can only do good.

[mothy]

I think the reason most people make bad picks is because they dont understand the team work aspect. If people explain nicely their opinion on who should pick which hero then people are more likely to do it.

I dont think anyone should face sanctions for having what is a bad pick (in your opinion) because maybe they play best with that hero which is better than them playing with what might be a good hero to you and playing really shit when they play it.

[voodoo112]

9det

The problem is not the hero but the player. You say, the guy picks "non-team" hero and therefore ruins the game. Well, even you force him to play "team" hero he most likely would not cooperate with others anyways.

However, I consider captain system as one with the huge potantional.

[Cip]

I don't like captains system and i don't like complicated things either. This channel is supposed to be a blend between euro casual easy games and more advanced serious games. We won't go in neither extreme. Like ihcs with captains and stuff, like DI with creep stats, hero kills, etc. We want to keep it simple yet fun and more pro.

[Nikash]

The thing is, every team needs only 1 carry or no carriest at all. First picks should be tanks\support heroes, coz else they'd be picked. There is ton of heroes who can carry, and its not a carry-pick win, its support-picks win. So, picking carry as first pick is a big mistake, since u lose much more important picks (like lich, warlock, tide, magnus), but i don't think there should be some special punishment, except of adding into surveilliance list.

[iZZ]

3rd option

[nbrn]

If it were to happen repeatedly -> surveilance.

[9det]

kinda agree with more or less all what have been stated.

I don't mind someone going for a carry early IF he ends up carrying well.

you don't need to be pro, just live up to the expectations that you set on you teammates minds when going for a pick that everyone was against at first. That's how it would work for me.

Oh believe me mothy, I'm always the first one to help my team decide on a decent balanced lineup, sometimes I'll even spam the name of the next hero to pick until their eyes bleed, but yeah some still go for crazy picks sometimes, generating tons of whine, bringing out the worst out of your teammates in terms of flame and demotivation (even had a guy throw out the game since minute 1 because of a bad pick because of teammate's very bad pick)

[Monzta]

I want to play techies as much as I like to.

We already saw in many discusions that people think very diffrent about hero strength and it's not very often clear what's a "bad pick". Perhaps there are just a few constellations where definitley a pick can be bad.
For me perhaps a riki pick, if the enemy already have BountyH, Sladar, Spiritbreaker.
But who knows, perhaps it still can be usefull to pick riki in this case  

[BaHaya]

Normally I would go for option 3 cause you are indeed right about how first picks can ruin the game (some1 firstpick Phantom Lancer to solo mid cough cough Pu...) :D

But Lanaya is just such a fun hero if played right so had to go with option 2 

[suntouch]

sad topic :(

[Brab]

maybe you should just make a modified DOTA version, where there are a total of 10 heroes to pick in general, seeing how 9 out of the 10 people in the .xp channel try to decide for whoever what to play every fucking time. there has to be a reason why DOTA has more than 10 heroes, and more than fucking 5 items -- even though people always expect you to make and do the same shit over and over, it becomes repetitive and boring. however, I can understand that you should not be going 5x agility heroes orsomething weird as that

[9det]

Don't twist my words now Brab :)

Point #1 : A bad 1st pick can ruin a 60 minute game. Plain and simple.

It does not need to be 5 agis, the 1st pick makes A LOT of difference, it may not always decide it all, but it plays a very important role.

I don't think I need to convince you with that, you've played a couple of rd games with the new fixed team system, you've seen for yourself how wrong a game goes.

Point #2: dude, go ahead and pick ANYTHING you want, and build ANYTHING you want, just live up to your choice and perform correctly.

And then, no one will whine or flame u, because no one will think that the team lost because of your pick. That's all