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[Cip]

  This channel is for more serious gameplay then euro. It is aimed as having higher skill standards, better player, no evaders, strict rules and achievements history. If you have more then 500 games, you are free to join. Less then 500, you need to apply for early access. Be careful! Teamplay and manners are the most important factor here. Try to not whine and try to listen to more experienced players. Play solo, ignore team or advices and you're out from xp forever.

Basic stuff:

RULES
All with this exceptions are same as euro:
- Drop before 15 min = remake -ap (same heroes to same players). If guy who dropped doesn't show in 5 min, ban and readd. No xp gains!
- If someone drops after 15 min, any team can FF from that point. (5 man team with 5 votes, 4 man team with 4 votes). No readd!
- 3 drops in a game or 2 from same team = instant readd. No xp gains. Only ban leavers.
- If someone drops, pause the game and wait for that guy to respond again on irc. If in 5 min he didn't return, consider him leaver and vote continue or FF. If he returns, everyone is forced to load the game (BOT host)
- You must include leavers with negative id in !xprequest. If leaver drop less then 2 min till throne down (not FF), you don't include him with -. Just banrequest.
- You can FF after 15 min at any time (5 votes needed, no forcing team members)
- Captains must always be on first spots in their team (they pick first).
- If a bug occurs ingame, player(s) must provide evidence and game is remade before 15 min/readd after 15 min. If player didn't tell, it's calculated as usual with no excuse at the end.
- No pauses in cm, cd mode!
- You can be afk max 2 minutes. More then that might be considered game ruin and long afk = leaving.
- Any player who requests READD because of teams will be banned 48h.
- Hosting with observers can be made if ALL 10 players agree. If only 1 player is against it, no observers. Don't fight or flame over this. See: http://www.dotapickup.net/forum/index.php/topic,40326.30.html - Also if observer drops and takes other with him, he can be banrequested.
- Players with very low xp or very inactive will be banned without notice/warnings. They can reapply in 3 months.


ADDING
* !add/!add2/!add3 have normal xp gains/loses (~20), teams are made by bot, captains are highest rank in team. You can use +c to be forced captain or -c to avoid being chosen as captain in your team.
- !add -> cd mode, captains are free to make strategy and pick for team.
- !add2 -> rd mode, captains ban 2 heroes ingame before picks.
- !add3 -> cm mode, captains have full control over picks and strategy.
- !cd NICK -> cd challenge (read more at end of this post)
- !cm NICK -> cm challenge (same)
- !add4 -> This is pool of players for challenges. Captains chose players from here.

REQUESTING XP GAINS
- Report ur team as winners directly with !winrequest EVIDENCE.
- To report game with leavers !winrequest -x -y EVIDENCE. Where x,y are max 2 negative ids of players that left.
- When there are 2 leavers, the first number represents the leaver in WINNING TEAM! (he won't lose xp). Example: !winrequest -3 -7 (-3 is player that his team won, and won't lose xp!)

- More advanced and complex command -> !xprequest ID1 ID2 ID3 ID4 ID5 http://..LINK_TO_EVIDENCE. Example: !xprequest 1 2 4 6 10 http://blablaevidence. Those numbers are the numbers of players from game list. Use !xprequest to get last gamelist.
- To make an advanced report with leavers use !xprequest with negative ids for leavers. Ex: !xprequest 1 3 -5 6 7. This means leaver was in winning team. Or: !xprequest 1 2 3 4 5 -6. This means winners had 5 members and leaver was in enemy (loosing) team. Or: !xprequest 1 2 3 4 -5 -6. This is 1 leaver in each team! 4 vs 4. You cannot request 2 leavers in same team as its readd.
- As evidence you can provide endgame screen or replay. ALL replays submitted can only be hosted on http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay_upload.php

VALIDATING
- Players on channel can validate the requests of other players for faster calculations! Use:
  -- !xpvalid GAMEID NR - to approve that request (on your own risk of ban)
  -- !xpinvalid GAMEID NR - if u see a wrong request or abused one
- Admin using command = +3, TP has +2 and normal users have +1 validation power
- Commands have a 5 sec antispam to make sure everyone checks it actually instead of mass type.
- You can't validate own request.
- At 3 validation power = autocalculate. Abusing this might get u 1 week ban or removal from xp. We trust!
- If there are no validations, admins process the game, xp for each player will be updated and spammed on channel.

Captain Draft / Captain Mode Challenges
- Nick1 (captain 1) uses !cm/!cd nick2 [with FRIENDNICK] to challenge. "with nick" is optional for filling ur subcaptain directly. This will work if:
  * in add2 or add3 are not more then 5 players
  * nick1 and nick2 have both more then 1001xp
  * nick1 and nick2 are on channel and not added already
- Nick2 (captain 2) can !accept [with FRIENDNICK] and topic change into cm mode or !deny. !add2 = subcaptain1". !add3 = "subcaptain2". !add4 = rest of players.
- Subcaptain usually means friend of captain and used to 100% be in same teams. !add4 players can't force who and what to pick.
- If 6+ players are added to pool, captains can start early with !start. It will autostart with 16.
- Bot randomizes who is sent/scourge and who picks first
- Picks are made by captains alternating 1-2-2-1 with !pick NICK1 NICK2
- According to who picked first player on irc, ingame Blue will type -cm 1 or -cm 2.
- Teams are NOT balanced by xp!
- XP gains are different depending on players ingame:
  * If AvgXP < 1300 then 20xp on balanced teams, min 2, max 40
  * If AvgXP >= 1300 and no leavers then 30xp on balanced teams, min 5, max 55
  * If someone drops from game, game is always calculated as normal gains (to avoid too much gains/loses in imbalanced games)
- Players in pool have a "XP Rank" 0-100 (higher is better) - It's composed: 65% xp, 15% winratio, 15% activity last 14 days, 5% total games.
- At end of game u !winrequest as usual.

PLAYERS
- Because we need bot to know exactly from irc the playerlist - THERE WILL BE NO STANDIN CONCEPT. If any player can't join, everyone readd and player will proly get banned. So be careful to join bnet BEFORE adding to avoid problems.

XP
- All players will start with 1000xp
- XP is calculated based on ELO system:
- XP from each team players are added -> winner team have a total, loser team another total.
- Based on differences between teams, the xp gained by winners from losers will be calculated: the more winners had over losing team, the less they gain. Therefore if u win against better teams u get more points, if you win against noobs u get less points.
- Points gained by teams are divided back to each player equal.
- Perfectly matched teams will gain/lose 20 in add1 (or 30 for add2). Gaining less means u won against a less xp team, gaining more means u won against better team.
- To see own xp use !xp. U can use it every 5 seconds and only if bot not busy with game creation.
- Advanced stats with !xp2 - shows "real" place in charts (including inactives) and other details.
- Receive full Top 50 on DCC - !xp3 - Only for people with 1001+ xp. Can be used every 20 seconds.

[ORGi69]

nice feature, hope it helps to increse gamecount there

[Jaegarsoldat]

This will motivate me even more to hold harder on pickup 

[Victoras]

XP is calculated based on ELO system. The exact details i might give later but basically:
- XP from each team players are added -> winner team have a total, loser team another total.
- Based on differences the xp gained by winners from loosers will be calculated: the more winners had over losing team, the less they gain. Therefore if u win against better teams u get more points, if you win against noobs u get less points.
- Points gained by teams are divided back to each player equal.

I have just 2 questions.

Do the losing team loses points? If the do, will everyone lose the same ammount of XP or it will be calculated proportionaly with the amount contributed to the team score?

Is this going to be a zero-sum system? The XP lost by one team is equal to the XP won by the other?

[Cip]

Yes so far it is zero sum. And xp is distributed evenly.

I have a script with ratio distribution in team that i used on 1337 channel for ~300 games. It wasn't liked too much and many whines were daily. Because some would get tons of xp even if they did nothing in certain games, just because he had some more from previous games. And to keep it balanced he also needs to lose the most when his team loses. And that was the big whine: why "best" player in team loses way more then a noob...

Not everyone understood how this worked.. and i doubt pickup users will. Therefore i try to keep it simple: 1 team loses xp that is distributed to the other team. XP moved is average 20/player with perfectly balanced games at 1000 points all. If the winning team is like 200 points higher then losing team they already get like 9/player. So it will keep all average players around 1000 and only worst or best will detach from average.

[LaGuNaB]

How are the teams chosen ? Random, stacked or we have two captains that pick players?

[Cip]

Everything is still the same. I don't care how teams are setup. U add normaly like any pickup game. It's not team creator (yet). It's just an improvement to the normal games.

In time when xp levels are more distanced, i can add the "suggest teams" where bot can make teams perfectly even by xp.

[grazzt]

Sounds fun.
Hope this will help add more xp games

[Botch]

Where can you check your own stats ?
Can you check others ?
Is it possible to have "fun" stats ? (like creep killed per game, gold gain per game etc...)

Seems nice, ty Cip

++

Botch

[Demons-Loan]

this sounds great, i can't wait to be able to join xp ;//

[Loof]

First off. It is nice to see that something is being done on the XP channel. Great idea for starters with an XP channel, too bad with the low amount of games, but hopefully changes will happen.

As for the system, I am afraid it might encourage stacking, but lets see where it leads, if we don't try, we won't see.

Good job.

[windblown snow]

I liked how xp worked in .1337 and the team suggestions. Pickup could benefit from this no doubt and great job!

[Monzta]

At first, thank you cip, for the effort spent to a new system.

Before pickup i played dota-league SIG. Where teams are suggested by the system and where you get 5points for every win and you drop 3 points with every game lost. I had a decent score, but changed to pickup to play with friends and because I don't care about stats.

As far as euro isn't changed, I don't fear any changes in XP.

But I have some random thoughts about the new XP System in comparison to Dota-league.

-Somehow pickup should be diffrent from dota-league.
-There are 138.955 users, don't know how much active, but probably still much more than in pickup. That means the scoring is appreciated, but there are reasons, why people play pickup instead of dota-league.
-They solve the match evaluation with the system that everybody has to enter result. That means a bot/human is only necessary if the player put in diffrent results. (Just to prevent that CIP has to check every of the 200 games each day in the near future )
-The web interface makes much things easier than it's possible in IRC.
-In Dota-league SIG you can't play with your friends. That's what i like most in pickup.
Instead of suggesting teams, I really would prefer that the scoring after game considers somehow how many teams on both sides were, instead of forcing them to split up due to a fair matchup.
-there was much more hatred in SIG-games. Everyone was nervous because of his score.


And offtopic: windblownsnow, you missed to coordinate your 2000th post with your 2000th game.

[Cip]

I played dota-league sig :)

And i hated it. First of all the scoring system is awful! It's not balanced at all. It's not fair and it's only used for ascending from 0 to X points to get into vip room. Basically it's a step u must climb each time u win and drop a little back when u lose. We don't need that here. It's almost like win/loses track. We can just use wins*5 - loses*3 = tada. Big deal.

The system used here is called ELO. It's one of best rating system available and i adapted it for dota teams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Also i'm doing the job manually because it's way to complex for pickup users using only irc to imput results. I tested that, works fine but not yet. There are few games daily anyway.

Again.. ELO ratings fight against stacking teams also: if u and ur friends are high in xp and play only vs noobs.. u won't gain nothing. The farther away u go, the less u gain. Until you will gain nothing. Just another "win" stat, not xp. And that happens not that far.. because it will be realy hard and only if u play with high xp to get over like 1300...

The advantage of what i created is that i will let everyone play like pickup. No fixed teams, no premade teams by bot atm, we just get the output of the game. Ofc you can challenge top xp players to fight them and gain even more xp.. you can do whatever.

[Monzta]

I played dota-league sig :)
No fixed teams, no premade teams by bot atm, we just get the output of the game. Ofc you can challenge top xp players to fight them and gain even more xp.. you can do whatever.

I'm glad to here that. (Now my mates just have to get 500 games :p )

Furthermore i just wanted to explain SIG for those, i guess, 5% that don't know it. So it's not that i talked about their rating system, because i like it. Sorry, that i wasn't clear about that. I definitley prefer a ELO system that I know from checkers and chess. (But never used it for Team Games so far.)